Hi, welcome the show. Well, this program is all about breaking patterns, that’s what we talk about. How do we recognize them in our behavior, in our feelings, in our thinking, and then our beliefs, and then when do we realize that some of those patterns need to shift for us to move into a life that we most want? Well I broke a pattern this week. I never go back to back with the same guest. I think it’s a bit of a no-no I believe in the broadcasting industry, but I found myself at the end of my time with Pierre that I just had not got to the bottom of the deck, so to speak. And so, I decided to pick up where I left off, and go deeper into what happens when we bring forth a life change. And what can we, at least not expect, but what could we understand might be some of the elements that will play themselves out when that starts to take place? There are some various ways to look at this and Pierre took me in to one such example. These interviews are self-standing, so by all means you can jump into this one as well as listen to the first. Don’t forget, you can in fact find Pierre at www.tarotwithpierre.com that’s T-A-R-O-T-W-I-T-H-P-I-E-R-R-E-dot-com. Now, let’s find out what goes on when we’re facing significant life changes.
Lesley: Alright. So I’m back with my great friend and mentor, and the first show where we introduced the kind of work that Pierre does in a brief snapshot, but where I was most interested in going is in understanding how the tarot holds the story of a human experience, a human life. And Pierre introduced us to how we begin as a magician and move through the various stages in our early life as we seek to find relationship with parents and then identity. And then we move into the world and seeing what is it that we bring in terms of the strength, and then the hermit which allows us to recalibrate what it is that we’re learning about ourselves. And then we go back into the world and to the wheel of fortune which is where we take… There’s a bit of a dynamic there, isn’t there, Pierre, in terms of… it’s kind of like we could fall off the wheel? What’s in the wheel of fortune?
Pierre: Whenever there’s a wheel of fortune happens is that you have hopes because we’ve had the reflection, and you say, “I’m recalibrating this and recalibrating that, and let’s put it out in the work.” Well some people are going to like it. Some people are not going to like it, right? Let’s say, you recalibrate your radio station and you were hard rock and all of that. And you start not liking the type of energy that has been attracted but you’ve been hard fifteen years. You have your clients, you have the people that buy your advertising and you say “No as of Monday.” After going into a retreat at your college, and you say, “I want to be into jazz and I want to be into funk.” And on Monday morning you literally emit jazz and funk, what do you think is going to happen? People are going to call, okay? And your salesforce that has been selling to hard rock clients, their advertising is going to walk into your office and say, “What are you doing?” Your DJs are probably going to quit. So, you’re doing a wheel of fortune here, so you’re going to lose people. That’s why when you said you fall off the wheel; you don’t fall off the wheel. Other people fall off the wheel because you have recalibrated the dynamics, because in strengths you have looked at the things up. It don’t work for you and you say, “No longer comfortable with the deal.”
Lesley: That’s what I find when we used to do work with executive leaders and they would reach the point of understanding that they were jeopardizing their family by the kind of hours they kept, And they would make a decision to recalibrate the kind of life that they were going to have. But in the wheel of fortune, some of them found that their families were not in the same mindset as them and they were the ones that said, “What the heck are you doing?” We kind of the like the way everything else was.
Pierre: Absolutely. Make it even more star t than that and look at a guy has been a lawyer or a woman has been a lawyer for 25 years, and says, “I don’t want to do law. I want to paint” using a black and white example and decides to go to NSCAD at 45. Well, the children are used to lawyer living. The husband is used to having a wife that is a lawyer that hasn’t gone off the debate. A bunch of people are going to say, “What are you doing?” And she’ll say, “I became a lawyer because there were lawyers in my family and you have chair Dalhousie laws school, that’s how I end up being a lawyer and I really don’t like it.” So, she is going to lose it. She is going to lose status in the world. That’s part of the wheel of fortune because the social laws of being a lawyer are this and being an artist is not the same thing. And, you have a law degree, you’ve got clients, and you’re saying, “Yuck.” That’s not right.
Lesley: Okay, so let’s just keep going with that example. So this is truly an important shift for this woman who has been a lawyer, and now wants to experience NSCAD for the audiences, the Nova Scotia College of Art and design. So, she’s investing in becoming an artist. She’s not just saying, “I’m going to go and take a canvass.”
Pierre: And the laws of being a lawyer say you’re wrong. Social laws, that’s the justice card right? It comes right after the wheel of fortune say, “You’re wrong. You’re breaking the law. You’re no longer walking the walk of being a lawyer, so there’s going to be a price to pay and the price is the hangman. If you want to be an artist, there you go.” Now, she has no roots in the art except her law so she accepts to be in an environment with a bunch of kids that are in their 20s that are very talented. She wants to do this but what is her level of talent? And she’s going to put in herself to all of that. And she’ll have moments of epiphany where she says, “Okay maybe I want to do jewelry. I mean the first year at NSCAD could go to everything.” That’s her hangman says, “Open your eyes, don’t panic.”
Lesley: Well you said that in the end of the last show which is the first universal laws don’t panic.
Pierre: Well in change yeah, especially radical change. I mean if you panic, you’re simply saying, “Put me back on the plane and get me back to Halifax now.”
Lesley: So, the absolute depth of the commitment of this woman who is transitioning and not transitioning quietly because she’s affecting every aspect of her life.
Pierre: Yeah that’s the wheel of fortune. The wheel of fortune is what I call a trust life card.
Lesley: Whatever is going to happen is going to happen.
Pierre: Well, I’m not going to say, “In five years you’re going to be successful and your stuff is going to be in Nova Scotia Art Museum, and you’re going to sell to John Risley. Well we don’t know that’s the wheel of fortune, but what I can guarantee you is that your life is going to change. Do you trust life?”
Lesley: So, as we’re going to the hangman where everything about her life is flipped, what do you say it takes to get an epiphany in that phase?
Pierre: You have to be awake.
Lesley: And willing to stay inside of the new experience.
Pierre: Well, if you run away from the new experience you’ve panicked.
Lesley: So, you got to have the sense, the degree of belief about what you’re doing that sustained you through that period.
Pierre: And very often knowledge of self and sort of exploring “Who am I? What am I?” Because that’s the only thing you’ll be able to tap into if you’re going to find the strength to be able. Because what she is claiming here is essence of who she is, what she is. And in order to get to it, she has to die, she has to be patient, she has to accept that her world would change and some people are going to be really, really nasty about it. Her life as she knows it, her house she set fire to it, and it’s okay because she believes in the essence of who she is, what she is. That’s where she’s going to because this model of her was so uncomfortable and did not work. And she discovered that in strength is that the beast came out, and says, “You’re an artist. If you embrace you’re an artist, you’ll be strong. If you embrace you’re a lawyer, you’ll be a lawyer.”
Lesley: Is that part of what meant?
Pierre: Well, in the sequence is that you have to accept that the part of you that played the role has got to go.
Lesley: Or the dream that you have for yourself.
Pierre: Well the dream that she has for herself now is being an artist. But what she is, is a lawyer with a husband that married a lawyer, with children that are children of a lawyer, with a family that is in the load of a daughter that is a lawyer. And now she says, “I’m not a lawyer.” So that’s got to die right?
Lesley: But she’s moving towards…
Pierre: Essence of who she is, what she is.
Lesley: Which is the star and that, I guess, has have sufficient energy to sustain us when we’re dealing with the fallouts.
Pierre: Yeah. Well that means she has to have a real confidence in the decision that she’s made and real confidence that that’s truly who she is, because you have people that totally lie to themselves. Because they don’t particularly like a situation, and they say, “This is not me” and they just walk away. And you say, “Oh wait a minute, is this a hangman or is this a wheel of fortune? Or is this simply somebody running away?” Well, the thing is you didn’t lie at any time here.
Lesley: yeah, and then what happens?
Pierre: Well you will eventually, because lying to yourself is expediency. You go into the devil and you’ll eventually have to readdress the tower again from a different perspective. I mean, are you solving the real problem? Are you solving the real malaise or are you painting over it?
Lesley: And just trying a quick fix of what that might be.
Pierre: Yeah, and making if shift. That often is the negative aspect of the moon which we’re going next. Like, when you go into essence of who you are, what you are, what are the things that you get back first? Well, the first thing that you get back is being able to imagine the life again. That’s imagination. That’s the moon. I’m able to shapeshift my life. I can see it. Now, because the moon is not part of intuition to card of imagination, I’m also able to imagine or project whatever I want. And the only way to be able to sort out whether what I’m seeing is real or not is the sun.
Lesley: Put it under the light of the sun.
Pierre: Yeah then it becomes real. So, the force that you go into at one in the morning and there’s cricks and cracks, and there’s all types of things depending on how much of an imagination you have.
Lesley: Dinosaurs, there’s witches, there’s goblins.
Pierre: Dinosaurs if you are five or four. But let’s say you’re an adult, you say, “What is this? It could be a skunk. It could be this. It could be that.” I mean, it’s one in the morning and it’s dark, and you’re trying walk, and “Am I in the path? Am I not?” I mean you’re imagining stuff. Then the sun comes up and you wonder, “What the hell was I afraid of?” because you’re seeing it for what it is. So that’s the difference between the two. So to the moon, often, if we go in the context of someone that is in a process of rebirthing into who they are, because that’s what the tower does. The tower says, “Okay work from your ashes.” It’s a phoenix. A new pup will be born. If a new pup is born, let’s make sure that that if you’re a niggle is really a niggle and not a crow. And if you’re a crow, let’s make sure that it’s a crow.
Lesley: So you have to make sure what your rebirthing is exactly what is…
Pierre: In line with essence of who you are, what you are.
Lesley: So how do we put the sun onto ourselves? Like for example when I’m in the forest and I’m making stuff up and no effect, but how do we create a sun that can give us the actual reality that we’re really in?
Pierre: Well, again, I’ve been saying “Awake, awake, awake.” I’ll give you a very good example. Let’s say we have this wonderful young woman, she’s 21, 22 years old, she’s brilliant, she’s bright and for some reason is in love with a joke. Her parents know she’s a jerk. Her friends know she’s a jerk, and everybody around her knows she’s a jerk. And they’re literally trying to convince her, “Don’t marry him. Go on with him until you find out he’s a jerk.” Nobody is saying it but… Let’s not get into a commitment to a vision the future with this particular person. And she decides even though there are evidences that he’s a bit of a jerk, she goes into her into her moon and she presents what she wants unto the guy and refuses to some extent to see it realistic. In marketing, why are so many people buying into Trump, to moon? It’s an extraordinary moon. But under the light of the sun, it doesn’t hold up. And yet, people have decided to project strong leader?
Lesley: Pretty amazing.
Pierre: Well it’s imagination. Because in reality, is he really a good businessman? I don’t know. I’m not judging in way or the other, I’m just saying he has no experience in government – zero. He probably never paid taxes.
Lesley: I mean you’re saying it but this is how the moon operates.
Pierre: That’s exactly how the moon operates in the negative. In the positive, we’re going to say, “Away from the negative. We’re going to go to the positive” is to some extent would walk to face the plan. And say, “I can see a house. I can see this. I can say that.” And sometimes they’re booing themselves a little bit too. You saw more than what was there but you saw something, so that can a moon to some extent in the imagination of seeing the potential of something that could be. And then under the light of the sun, I say, “Okay, can you be a…?”
Lesley: Right. Is this going to be a factor of reality?
Pierre: In reality, can you make this happen? Look at a romantic moon. You’re walking a beach 12:30 midnight, and you look at the beach and you can see a dragon floating, and you say, “Oh my God this is so extraordinary.” Then you continue, you get closer and closer. And it’s a guy doing hotdogs and the rocks were sort of… And you didn’t even need the sun or you needed the respect of that was different. Under the light sun, you will say, “Oh gee it’s a guy cooking his hotdog. He’s on an open fire and the rocks sort of look like a dragon, but they really don’t look like a dragon now. I wonder if there was a little bit of fog because fog is really nice here.” There’s always a little bit of fog, a little bit of distortion, mirrors that made you look fat and make you look thin. And yet, it’s an extraordinary powerful card because this is where placebo is, this is where the power of belief in a person that heals you, belief in homeopathy, belief in having a good relationship with your doctor or having a good relationship with someone that gives counseling to you. And you say, “You know, I walk out of there, I feel a little bit better.” Well what really happened, it’s whatever you projected on it. So, there are no gurus, there are only people that we project guru is among them.
Lesley: Oh I like that. I really happen to live that as well but that works for me. So then, we’ve gone through this on and then what happens in judgment?
Pierre: Judgment is the real rebirthing.
Lesley: So we’ve gone through all of the word.
Pierre: We’re rebirthing, flat out as who we are, what we are. So, our artist that was a lawyer would accepted whatever came her way because of her choice, accepted new friends, accepted the fact that she was 20 years older than the people that were around her was patient with herself, accepted that certain modes around her would change. Because sometimes we don’t create tower, it just shows up. But we sort of created it because she said, “This doesn’t work for me.” I say, “Well, you’re not going to be able to keep them. I’m sorry.” “This house doesn’t work for me. This life doesn’t work for me. This marriage eventually doesn’t work for me.” I’ll show its cracks unless she has a partner that’s really evolved to some extent and understands what she’s going through, and then they both go into the star and talk about it. They are both able to imagine a new life. It is sustainable under the light of the sun and then the rebirth as a couple and as a family that has an artist in the family.
Lesley: And then she’s able to move into…
Pierre: The world which means that earth, air, water, fire are working with her, so she’s a magician again and she’s starting it. She’s now like a child. So, does she trust her intuition if she nurture again? Is she setting an enough so that she has an academic solidity? How does she present herself into the world? Is she a potter? Is she a painter? Is she a multimedia artist? Does she want to make movies? Does she want to make films? And then she chose it out into the world and finds out what she’s about as an artist, recalibrates, risks again…
Lesley: And off she continues in the evolution of herself.
Pierre: We redo it until not necessarily we get right, but until we are exactly who we are. We are the magician that we’re bet supposed to do magic that is “I am the best pencil maker in the world and that’s what I like to do” and that’s where magic is. It can be a pencil maker. It can be glass maker.
Lesley: It’s whatever that essence.
Pierre: It’s, “Are you faithful to what you are?”
Lesley: Now one card before we close that we haven’t talked about is the zero card called “The fool.” What is that when that card shows up, what is it saying to us?
Pierre: It means that you have a choice. It’s always a choice. And a choice in the fool at its highest N is a choice in enlightment is “I know exactly what I am, who I am and this is what I have to do. Now If I make choices in the fool at that height, what are you looking for? In that really, really high N consciousness place and I’m living totally in the now and it’s enlightment. Well I don’t need this. I don’t need any of these cards. I don’t need a bible. I don’t need Deepak Chopra. I don’t need Dalai Lama. I am the Dalai Lama.”
Lesley: Ah that’s a very powerful card.
Pierre: Yeah. Well this is zero. It’s nothing and it’s everything. Now, because I’ve chosen to interpret it that way, I work this system my way. At a lower level of enlightment, I make its choice. It’s a decision. And I make a choice in the decision. I make a choice outside of fear, outside of guilt. So, in our sequence here, it would be here with our lawyer. The reflection in the hermit, I will make a choice outside of fear, outside of guilt, because I know all of this and then I’m going to the wheel of fortune and I trust life. So this is where it would happen, but it’s always a choice that will change your life. So it’s not just “I decide to get gas and then I get back on the same road.” It’s a huge fork in the road that will not lead to your previous destination. It’s a new future. That’s why when I talk to you when we start, I say, “Okay we’re going to try to find optimal future.” Well, optimal future is probable. It doesn’t mean it’s going to happen, it’s probable. And if in fact there’s a big choice in that, well, you’ll have a fool in the reading and you’ll say, “Okay, this person has this extraordinary choice to literally go back to school and study something that is totally different than her experience.” Or simply say, “Okay, I’m going to India to study Buddhism or I’m going to Japan to study Zen or Japanese cooking.” And so, “What are you talking about? You were in Paris studying with whoever he is. I can’t remember one of the chefs. But anyway, why are you walking away from European French cooking where you’ll have four stars?” And you say, “I stumble unto the Japanese thing and it’s so pure and bla, bla, bla and that’s where I’m going.” Well your life will change. The course of your life and the destination will change.
Lesley: So if you stay in the energetic element of the fool, then things just occur and you stay in an enlightment state of appreciation of what you are.
Pierre: Which means you’re always in and out, there’s never any fear and there’s no guilt towards “I insulted you because you paid for my law school and after five years I said hey.”
Lesley: Yes. So literally it transcends what all of the drama that this life…
Pierre: It transcends all societal rules, it transcends all familial rules. You just allow yourself to be yourself, and then the torpedoes to some extent.
Lesley: And that’s going be part of this show is helping us appreciate how we can get stuck in these various other facets of life the way that you described them, and how unbelievably powerful it is when we reach that full state of just knowing.
Pierre: Yeah. I mean very few people get there to some extent. It’s just be awake, be awake, be awake. And understanding that your societal rules, I mean, what is right here might be wrong over there what is right for you. Where are your ethics? Where did they come from? Is it because your mother, your father, or at a certain point in time did you sit there with yourself and say, “Ethically where do I stand?” Take something as simple as a specialist doctor that because of a system has a patient or client that wait between a year and three years to see it. Ethically, where does he stay? I’m saying I know the system is not his fault, but he’s at the top of the pyramid. So, has he ever sat down and said, “Okay, ethically, where do I stand here? Morally, where do I stand here? I’m just thinking about that the other day.” So, is there a point where you develop personal ethics, personal morality? And in the full is that you act and you work in that paradigm which is your paradigm. No longer anybody else’s without even thinking you’re living in the now and ethically becomes very, very easy to say, “Oh yeah I’ll do this, I’ll do that” because it tricks.
Lesley: Powerful. Well, I want to thank you for the chance to pick your brain on the way in which you’ve helped me over the years, and how you helped hundreds and thousands of other people over the years and how they can live life with a bigger awareness and awakeness of what’s going on in them and around them.
Thanks so much for listening to this program and spending the time with me and Pierre in uncovering hopefully some other channels of information that will be beneficial to you as you face challenges that are coming into your world. As women who lead, we have an enormous number of balls that are juggling in the air. And, what I’d like to suggest is that we have more tools to help us understand them than we may be accessing. These tools range from anything from management program through to the mysterious world of the tarot. Each one has a different lens. Each one provides a different set of insights, and I hope that you were able to connect with some of the ones that Pierre and I talked about. To find out more about Pierre and possibly to connect with him on some information for you, you can reach him on Facebook and on LinkedIn Pierre Belanger P-I-E-R-R-E B-E-L-A-N-G-E-R. And as mentioned at the top of the show www.tarotwithpierre T-A-R-O-T-W-I-T-H-P-I-E-R-R-E-dot-com. You do know where to find me; I’m at leseleysouthwicktrask.com and womenwholead.co, Facebook Women Who Lead Radio Show. Come on! Give me a tweet. Let me know that you’re listening, Lesleyst@LsouthT, that’s where you can find me. After all, this is your show and I am your host, Lesley Southwick-Trask. See you next time.